- 31/01/2019 at 11:22 am #21661
I’m not sure where to turn and maybe I’m in the wrong place but wondering if I can seek any guidance with a non consent pregnancy
I’ve messed up and need a bit of guidance into where I stand and if there’s such a law (UK) of a girl getting pregnant without consent. Basically I was seeing this girl for a number of days over a period of 2 weeks before I called it off because she was getting to intense, even when I called it off I was getting a barrage of texts so I had to block her.
Anyway before this and I slept with her she told me she couldn’t get pregnant and this was confirmed by the doctors due to medication she was taking, I stupidly took the risk after a few drinks, and during our ‘relationship period’ I slept with her twice more, I decided to end our short relationship because she was really getting into me and saying stuff like I’m really ‘falling for you, hope you don’t mind that I can’t have kids’ etc etc. I thought to myself I don’t want this to go any further so the upset will be less further down the line as I was not into her like she was to me.
After I blocked her a few weeks later I was harassed by her daughter with texts so I had to block her too, then about a month later a relative messaged me on messenger with abusive texts saying she is pregnant and I’m a ba****rd and stooping how low they can go by dropping me into the CSA etc etc. I was in shock of course but still couldn’t believe that she was pregnant. I decided to unblock the girl I dig for information and yes she was pregnant. I briefly met with her at the time she was 6weeks pregnant and pleaded not to go ahead with it as me and her will never be an item (on this occasion I really thought to abort was the best option for all party’s). But she already had made her mind up (I knew this already!). Next morning she messaged me at 7am and it was just to much to take so I blocked her again.
After 9 months the child was born and immediately she dropped me to the CSA, I decided to have a DNA test and it’s come back positive, now I’m forced to pay maintenance from the CSA.
I’m not after symphony, and I would never turn my back on the child if he came looking but I really do not want to get involved with this women and now especially I have met someone who I’m having a child with in a healthy relationship, not to mention this is all after a 15yr relationship with my ex wife that I have a child with.
It’s a long story cut short, but I’m looking for laws on my situation and I can’t find anything. I’m financially broke and already struggle to set up a future with my new family.
Anyone else had a similar issue?
- 03/02/2019 at 8:51 pm #21750
It is certainly a hard and unusual situation. Have you spoken to any family solicitors or citizens advice. It seems like it is going to be a bit of a specialist area. I hope you get everything sorted out but there is always support here if you need it.
- 03/02/2019 at 9:12 pm #21754
I don’t really know what to say as I have no experience of CSA etc but I’d assume that you don’t have a leg to stand on.
You knew full well that sleeping with her ‘could’ result in pregnancy, and she certainly didn’t take advantage of you. The consent was there from both parties.
All I would say is, you have a child with her, so you deserve to pay accordingly with CSA, she can’t be expected to raise your child with no support financially just because you didn’t want the child.
On that note too, is it fair for your child to be the one to have to come looking for you. If I wasn’t with my boys mum I’d be banging her door down every day to see them – growing up thinking their dad didn’t want them just isn’t an option.
Sorry if it sounds harsh, I wish you well in whatever you choose to do but I’d be wary about coming across like the bad one here, as I don’t think you will be looked upon too favourably by CSA, the mother or more importantly the child.
- 20/04/2019 at 4:46 pm #25470
I also know full well that i could be run over by a bus while crossing the street in a designated cross-walk, but society holds that bus driver responsible none the less… Her alleged inability to become pregnant was clearly conveyed to the op. I doubt he ever signed any legal documents, or made any verbal agreement to become a father. A failure to deny consent does not imply enthusiastic consent. Society does not allow rape so long as the victim fails to deny consent (i.e situations where drugs or alcohol are involved), it is rape when consent is not provided. To set a different standard for anything else is inconsistent and illogical.
She isn’t expected to raise a child. She has various options during pregnancy and after the child is born. Hypothetically, a woman can employ 10+ different forms of birth control within her own body (none of which are a male condom/controlled by the man). She can take a morning after/plan b pill. She can choose to have an abortion performed. She can have the child and give it up for adoption. She can even abandon the child at a designated safe location in specific countries and/or states, facing no legal consequences for doing so. Men have a few options, wear a condom (not a guarantee), get a vasectomy (permanent, and not always 100% effective), or don’t have sex (though if you are raped by a woman and she becomes pregnant, you are still legally responsible to pay child support, even if you are under the legal age of consent when the rape occurs).
With all of this evidence before us, I would say it’s impossible to look at this situation logically and conclude that this is a fair and balanced system. I can only imagine the message that young men are receiving when they see older men saying that their consent to be a father doesn’t matter, only that they consent to having sex. It’s all too convenient to forget what it was like to be young and horny, as though not having sex is a realistic expectation. If not having sex is a realistic expectation, then why all the controversy surrounding access to legal abortion? Surely people can just choose to not have sex so that we can do away with medically unnecessary abortions? It all works perfectly if we pretend that young humans are rational and responsible enough to just abstain from having sex… Is it any wonder so many young men are being driven toward toxic movements like incel and mgtow, when there is hardly a reasonable alternative voice available to guide them, to show them that some women are still worth it, that becoming a father is still worth it?
He never agreed to be, and is not legally obliged to be a father. He is legally obliged to pay child support, and short of fleeing the country there is little he can do to change this reality. Whether this financial responsibility is fair or not can certainly be argued (preferably with facts/evidence and a rational perspective), but he is obligated none-the-less.
Ignore the shaming and emotionally driven arguments OP. Ask yourself if you ever gave this woman any reason to believe that you wanted to become a father, and did she ever give you any reason to believe that she was capable of becoming pregnant? If the answer is no, then you have only one choice to make, stay and become a reluctant father, or fly to freedom and a new start, perhaps somewhere tropical ;)
- This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by James.
- 03/02/2019 at 11:41 pm #21759
As for the csa you will have to pay it, they go through income and outgoings, they will take in account that your new partner is pregnant. And how many nights a week you have the child but in your case as you won’t be having the child so you will be expected to pay more than you would if say you had the child one night a week.
As it goes for the rest of it, if your not on the birth certificate you don’t have any legal rights to the child. Are you sure you don’t want anything to do with the child as there are contact centres there in place so you don’t have to deal with the mother and just focus on the child. At the end of the day it’s not the child’s fault he/she was created it’s down to you two and how you want he/she to be brought up. Personally despite what I thought of the mother I would go for joint custody at least the child will know you and know that you never gave up.
- 10/03/2019 at 11:35 am #23532
I don’t have any personal experience of this but the previous posters have made good comments.
I’d underline that the child needs to know that he was not “abandoned” and contact could be made if wanted.
Then the choice is down to him.
I didn’t know that the birth certificate would not have the fathers name on it, this seems wrong as obviously your name is available.
- 19/04/2019 at 5:26 pm #25434
Jo – The father’s name cannot be added unless he is there at the registration and signs it
- 19/04/2019 at 5:31 pm #25435
OP – Perhaps you should spend less time impregnating women and more time researching contraception!!!!!
- 20/04/2019 at 5:47 pm #25483
How is this at all a helpful response? People want to have to sex, and men have far fewer options for birth control that don’t reduce the pleasure of sex or involve permanent sterilization (rather counter productive to becoming a father). Education/research doesn’t always result in people making the right choice. All the research shows that being overweight or obese is incredibly unhealthy, and yet people continue to eat large amounts of animal products, scoff down donuts and have a workout routine consisting of walking to the fridge and lifting the tv remote. Perhaps we would be better off as a society holding men AND women equally responsible for birth control, and requiring consent to become a father. If a woman tells a man she can’t get pregnant, perhaps he is silly to believe her, but she still clearly lied and should be responsible for the consequences, particularly when she has far more methods of bc including the right to an abortion, adoption, etc, none of which he has. Should the food industry not be held responsible for telling people that animal products and processed crap is good for them, paying off research teams to publish poorly designed studies? Or is it all the fault of overweight/obese people because they can’t lose the weight with a diet of poison that they’ve been told is good for them, who is the real culprit here?
- 20/04/2019 at 6:18 pm #25489
He’s impregnated 3 different women and is trying to wash his hands of one of them! I think he needs a refresher course before he ends up creating more poor abandoned kids and lands himself a spot on Jeremy Kyle
- 20/04/2019 at 7:10 pm #25491
Yeah he’s thinking with the wrong head, we’ve already established that. He shouldn’t just trust that women are telling him the truth/behaving rationally when they say they can’t get pregnant, but she did blatantly lie to him, it happens all the time in unhealthy relationships. You’re still talking as though he tied these women up and impregnated them against their will, as though these women didn’t have a dozen different options to avoid becoming pregnant and another 3-4 options to avoid taking care of the child regardless of the will of the reluctant father.
I’m not making the argument that op is a perfectly responsible adult who couldn’t have prevented this from happening. I’m making the argument that women have the vast majority of bc options, and are not required to be financially or otherwise responsible for a child. Why should men be held financially responsible for what happens in a woman’s body, when women aren’t even held responsible for it financially or otherwise? Scores of men have been thrown in prison after failing to pay unreasonable child support, often when they lose a source of significant income through no fault of their own. If you want society to continue to hold men responsible for pregnancies, then it’s time we started holding women responsible as well. That means no more medically unnecessary abortions (especially without the fathers consent), no more legal abandonment of the child by the mother, and no more adoptions without the father’s consent.
That’s the world we would live in if you want to be logically consistent with your argument. Do you really want to live in that world? I don’t, I’d rather live in a world where both my son and daughter have the freedom to consent to becoming a parent when they are ready. Where my son doesn’t have to worry about being held financially liable when a woman lies about being on birth control, or decides to keep the baby even when he has made it clear to her that he doesn’t want to be a father. I want to live in a world where my daughter has the freedom to decide whether or not she is ready to take care of a child, where she has the option of an abortion if some ahole rapes her. Maybe it’s difficult for someone who doesn’t have both a son and daughter to understand, but I’m not okay with infringing on the freedom of one gender just to ensure greater privileges for the other. Put forth a logically consistent argument if you want to change mind.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by James.
- 20/04/2019 at 10:16 pm #25494
I’m not even reading your essays! Every man AND woman is responsible for protecting them self. Every man out there knows that regardless of what a woman says or thinks, if they have unprotected sex then they run the risk of pregnancy. You’re trying your best to justify it/get out of it, but that’s the cold hard truth. You do the crime you do the time. Fact. The law is the law.
I’m not engaging in your lunacy any further
- 20/04/2019 at 11:16 pm #25495
Alright, that’s entirely fair. I can’t convince you to read/understand my point of view nor to be logically consistent with your arguments. I’m not just here to argue with emotionally driven people who aren’t interested in understanding their own logical fallacies. Your argument basically boils down to the idea that women shouldn’t be trusted with birth control and they shouldn’t be held responsible for it either… I can’t entirely agree with that.
I do believe there are reasonable solutions to solve the problem. 1) It would be entirely reasonable to address consent for sex and consenting to become a parent separately, we already extend this privilege to women, so we can just give men the legal right to opt out of parental responsibilities as well. 2) Why not just extend the welfare state to also cover men’s financial provider role? We already pay a greater society cost imprisoning men who are unable or unwilling to pay the ransom, and women already receive tax funding to provide for their children anyways. If you can’t be bothered to read what I have to say before throwing around insults and other meaningless drivel, then by all means don’t waste your time (or mine) replying.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by James.
- 20/04/2019 at 11:45 pm #25497
Maybe I’m being unreasonably complex with my arguments here, I’d rather simplify my points enough that people can understand them and find some common ground. I don’t want to be overly blunt with my language, but it’s very frustrating that I can’t convey why the current system is more fair to my daughter than it is to my son.
The fact that men are held financially responsible for a pregnancy, with the threat of imprisonment if they can’t/don’t payup is irrefutable, it’s objective reality. The fact that women have far more control over whether or not they become pregnant after sex, and/or whether or not they keep the child is also irrefutable. I don’t see how you can deny these basic facts and claim that birth control is fair and equal for men and women, when women can literally have all the unprotected sex they want and exercise complete control over whether or not a pregnancy occurs?
Men lose control of pregnancy as soon as they ejaculate in a woman. Our options for birth control are not as reliable (condoms), not as enjoyable (condoms, abstinence), and not as reversible (vasectomy). If you continue to deny this truth then I have to conclude that you either can’t comprehend it, or you just don’t care whether or not my son has the same degree of freedom/control over this aspect of life as my daughter. I certainly hope you don’t hold this attitude with a son of your own.